Abidance of the 50m rule - UK

[Stevan]

Hi all,

I believe I have a good understanding of the U.K. Regulations on flying my spark, so my question relates to the morality of breaking the 50m rule as appose to the legal ramifications.

There are a few locations around my town I would love to photograph, statues, monuments, old buildings etc. but couldn't do so legally. If I was to go out in the early hours of the morning 2-3am and do it anyway would it be "that bad"?

Assuming it was safe, no people or vehicles about, is this still frowned upon? I'd hate to cause any trouble for the drone community. Am I overthinking this or not being respectful enough?

I know you can never condone illegal activity I'd just like some incite from other more experienced pilots.

Thanks guys.

 

[Zookeeper]

Its for you and your conscience to decide..

 

[Ophidia Snaketongue]

As a UK flyer, I feel that the 50m rule makes sense on paper, but is very difficult to obey in real conditions. Very often, I'll be flying my drone somewhere out in the middle of nowhere, and it's like magic- all these people will suddenly appear and walk to within 50m of the drone out of curiosity. I think they're summoned by the drone fairies...

As for flying in towns- bad idea. Our towns are cramped and also full of wifi signals and magnetic interference that could very well send your drone haywire- many flyaways are caused by interference. Also, a builtup area would count as requiring a distance from all buildings vehicles and people of 150m- that pretty much boils down to 'You can't legally fly a drone in a town.' I guess during summer you could fly your drone late at night but you're asking to be mugged or reported for making noise and being a nuisance.

Are these rules overkill? Sort of. Consider you're controlling what is essentially a flying blender that is capable of speeds of up to 30mph, you can see their point. If you do the sums on that, you can see that the Spark, in sport mode, could cross 50m in under five seconds. However, bicycles, for instance, don't have these rules and would do a *lot* more damage if they hit someone.

Overall, I feel the rule is too strict and tough to follow. I believe the 50m rule was bought in when most UACs were fixed wing planes with far less maneuverability.

Maybe the rules will get relaxed when the training and registration courses come in, but I doubt it- our government doesn't like getting rid of rules once it's instigated them!

As for me, I follow the law as much as I can, but sometimes it's 'spirit of the law', since 'letter of the law' is just plain impossible.

 

[Lastrexking]

I think if you fly in the early hours you’re more likely to get reported to the police. It seems much more suspicious.
I prefer to stick to the law rather than give the likes of the Daily Mail another reason to try and get drones banned.

 

[Ophidia Snaketongue]

In the Daily Mail tomorrow: Drones cause cancer!

 

[Stevan]

Thanks for your replies, lots of good points here, never even considered my suspiciousness before! Haha. I understand laws are necessary and I have been following them all (bar a few cheeky flights round the yard) but it's good to get a little perspective.

I'd hate to bother anyone, it's just such a shame when you look at something and think "Wow that would make a great photograph", but are so restricted.

 

[Lastrexking]

Thanks for your replies, lots of good points here, never even considered my suspiciousness before! Haha. I understand laws are necessary and I have been following them all (bar a few cheeky flights round the yard) but it's good to get a little perspective.

I'd hate to bother anyone, it's just such a shame when you look at something and think "Wow that would make a great photograph", but are so restricted.

I live in York, there’s so much stuff I’d like to film here. Dunno if getting a licence would help that, but they’re a lot of money.

 

[S.J]

As a UK flyer, I feel that the 50m rule makes sense on paper, but is very difficult to obey in real conditions. Very often, I'll be flying my drone somewhere out in the middle of nowhere, and it's like magic- all these people will suddenly appear and walk to within 50m of the drone out of curiosity. I think they're summoned by the drone fairies...

As for flying in towns- bad idea. Our towns are cramped and also full of wifi signals and magnetic interference that could very well send your drone haywire- many flyaways are caused by interference. Also, a builtup area would count as requiring a distance from all buildings vehicles and people of 150m- that pretty much boils down to 'You can't legally fly a drone in a town.' I guess during summer you could fly your drone late at night but you're asking to be mugged or reported for making noise and being a nuisance.

Are these rules overkill? Sort of. Consider you're controlling what is essentially a flying blender that is capable of speeds of up to 30mph, you can see their point. If you do the sums on that, you can see that the Spark, in sport mode, could cross 50m in under five seconds. However, bicycles, for instance, don't have these rules and would do a *lot* more damage if they hit someone.

Overall, I feel the rule is too strict and tough to follow. I believe the 50m rule was bought in when most UACs were fixed wing planes with far less maneuverability.

Maybe the rules will get relaxed when the training and registration courses come in, but I doubt it- our government doesn't like getting rid of rules once it's instigated them!

As for me, I follow the law as much as I can, but sometimes it's 'spirit of the law', since 'letter of the law' is just plain impossible.

but remember the law has no soul !

 

[Stevan]

I live in York, there’s so much stuff I’d like to film here. Dunno if getting a licence would help that, but they’re a lot of money.

Yeah and it's allready a pretty expensive hobby to begin with. Even if you get the licence your still restricted by people and vehicles "not under your control".

This is why I was curious about people going rouge and I couldn't find anyone frankly discussing it. How often do people actually do it? Not like hovering over a motorway, or restricted airspace crashing into a Blackhawks sort of crazyness, but perhaps throwing the spark up snapping a few photos of a building and leaving.

 

[Zookeeper]

many 1000's of people use their mobile phones whilst driving despite it being illegal and without a thought for what their distraction might cause. I think its likely that a fairly high proportion of drone users will stretch the law when it suits them.

 

[nicholas hickman]

I live in York, there’s so much stuff I’d like to film here. Dunno if getting a licence would help that, but they’re a lot of money.

Getting a licence would make you more culpable.

As for the main point, currently there are actually very few laws regarding "drones" in the UK. We have the CAA drone code, which is not legislated but is a set of good practice guidelines - AFAIK. Rules do not make people safer, only the adherence to those rules and the more complex and unrealistic those rules become the less compliance we will see.

Don't do anything that is likely to cause a problem, so flying inches away from a 12th century stain glass window is not a good idea. Use the gift of common sense.

 

[Mike Brown]

I went flying a few days ago. Chose a very deserted spot. When I arrived there was one empty car, and someone walking their dog an the beach some 200m away. So I start setting up, doing checks etc. By the time I have the craft in the air and I have done the in flight check, two more cars have turned up along with around twenty people. Result, flight cancelled. It may well be the drone fairies, or spirits as I used to call them when I worked, whatever it is I did not want to break the rules and lose my PfCO. Strangely, as I was packing away a chap came up to me and stated telling me that the week before some folk were on the very same spot with Drones. This time they were testing drone detectors out to over 1km. There will be one coming your way before long. Remember speed cameras and how big they were. Nowadays they are giving hand held versions to civilians who stand by the road and take your speed and details. So they will be with you soon. Wait! They are already here. How many mobile phones are there in a group of twenty people do we think? At least ten. Each one capable of taking movies of you breaking the regulations. Not worth the risk I my opinion, as I am sure there would be lots of volunteers to do just that given enough incentive.

 

[Lastrexking]

I went flying a few days ago. Chose a very deserted spot. When I arrived there was one empty car, and someone walking their dog an the beach some 200m away. So I start setting up, doing checks etc. By the time I have the craft in the air and I have done the in flight check, two more cars have turned up along with around twenty people. Result, flight cancelled. It may well be the drone fairies, or spirits as I used to call them when I worked, whatever it is I did not want to break the rules and lose my PfCO. Strangely, as I was packing away a chap came up to me and stated telling me that the week before some folk were on the very same spot with Drones. This time they were testing drone detectors out to over 1km. There will be one coming your way before long. Remember speed cameras and how big they were. Nowadays they are giving hand held versions to civilians who stand by the road and take your speed and details. So they will be with you soon. Wait! They are already here. How many mobile phones are there in a group of twenty people do we think? At least ten. Each one capable of taking movies of you breaking the regulations. Not worth the risk I my opinion, as I am sure there would be lots of volunteers to do just that given enough incentive.

As long as you’re 50m away from them you’d be fine.

 

[Mike Brown]

Thing is I wasn’t. All of them without exception all started walking toward me and my craft, one even walked underneath with their dog whilst I was landing. In the face of that what else can you do?

 

[Lastrexking]

Thing is I wasn’t. All of them without exception all started walking toward me and my craft, one even walked underneath with their dog whilst I was landing. In the face of that what else can you do?

Yeah, it’s difficult.
The only way I’ve found to get around it is to get up early and go somewhere that would normally be quiet... fine in summer, but not so much in winter.

 

[Stevan]

The only way I’ve found to get around it is to get up early and go somewhere that would normally be quiet... fine in summer, but not so much in winter.

That's what I've been doing, early mornings or evenings. Even then, like other people have said, there's always someone wants to have a look at the helicopter...

 

[Spark 317]

In the face of that what else can you do?

There's various sights on the web that sell safety equipment that could help people be aware of your activities.

 

[Mike Brown]

Thanks for that. As a qualified drone pilot I already have everything from yellow jackets through to posts and tape, signs etc. Folk just ignore it like they ignore the don’t walk your dog unless it’s on a leash signs. Sadly I did not have my ground crew with me as she was working. Only fit flying day for two weeks and I had to abandon it!

 

[Mike Brown]

That's what I've been doing, early mornings or evenings. Even then, like other people have said, there's always someone wants to have a look at the helicopter...

Sadly those times I cannot do as my condition doesn’t allow it. But when I do get a good day, I like others always get a group asking questions, but when I have my ground crew with me she can keep them safe.

 

[Denver]

Hi, just been asked a question by a friend regarding the flight limits and I wasn’t sure how to answer him. If two pilots are flying drones, one flies over his height limit of 120 meters, the other climbs up an adjacent hill to 120mtrs height, then flies his drone to the same height. The first pilot is breaking the law, by being too high but the second isn’t although both drones are at the same height. I thought it was from the ground level you were at, or am I wrong.?