Night flight: What's the deal?

[chascoadmin]

Straight from our drone attorney, only non-recreational operators need to file for night waivers. Non-recreational includes Commercial, Governmental and Emergency Service use. Doesn't make much sense does it?

 

[DavidBlezard]

Hello from the Hoosier Heartland Jmc657.






Do you have a link with clarification pertaining to hobbyist?

Part 107 pilots may be flying for commercial reasons (getting paid) and may have to jump through the hoops of government.

This seems to be a back and forth topic.

Please share it with us and welcome to the Forum. ?

As a hobbyist I wanted to be able to fly under the rules of Part 107 so I studied, took the test and passed. Yes it was $150 to take the test. But I can fly when hobbyists cannot. Problem solved .

 

[chascoadmin]

As a hobbyist I wanted to be able to fly under the rules of Part 107 so I studied, took the test and passed. Yes it was $150 to take the test. But I can fly when hobbyists cannot. Problem solved .

That's true, but now you're bound. What is it that you were wanting to do that you felt the need to be 107 certified? Make money?

Has anyone really looked into what it means when flying recreationally as a Part 107 pilot? It's a technicality, but do you have to report that you are 107 if something happens? Your drone has to be registered either way.

 

[Jmc657]

Well, PhantomFandom, thanks for pointing out my inadequacies and inaccuracies.

Good luck flying at night hobbyists!

 

[PhantomFandom]

As a hobbyist I wanted to be able to fly under the rules of Part 107 so I studied, took the test and passed. Yes it was $150 to take the test. But I can fly when hobbyists cannot. Problem solved .

The problem the OP pointed out here is that in this specific case a flight under hobbyist rules actually has more latitude than a flight under Part 107 rules. A hobbyist is not prohibited from flying at night while someone flying under Part 107 would need authorization to do so.

 

[PhantomFandom]

That's true, but now you're bound. What is it that you were wanting to do that you felt the need to be 107 certified? Make money?

Has anyone really looked into what it means when flying recreationally as a Part 107 pilot? It's a technicality, but do you have to report that you are 107 if something happens? Your drone has to be registered either way.

Not really bound to anything. The Part 107 pilot has the flexibility to fly under either set of regulations, depending on the intent of the flight.

What it means to fly recreationally as a Part 107 pilot is to have the intent of the flight established before takeoff and not changing that intent mid-flight.

If "something happens" either type of pilot is required to report the incident depending on the criteria of what happened.

Yes the drone needs to be registered either way unless it is under 250 grams, in which case it does not need to be registered for hobbyist flying.

 

[Mjwarch]

Not really bound to anything. The Part 107 pilot has the flexibility to fly under either set of regulations, depending on the intent of the flight.

What it means to fly recreationally as a Part 107 pilot is to have the intent of the flight established before takeoff and not changing that intent mid-flight.

If "something happens" either type of pilot is required to report the incident depending on the criteria of what happened.

Yes the drone needs to be registered either way unless it is under 250 grams, in which case it does not need to be registered for hobbyist flying.

well stated. A part 107 pilot can fly recreationally based on their intent at takeoff.

 

[chascoadmin]

Not really bound to anything. The Part 107 pilot has the flexibility to fly under either set of regulations, depending on the intent of the flight.

What it means to fly recreationally as a Part 107 pilot is to have the intent of the flight established before takeoff and not changing that intent mid-flight.

If "something happens" either type of pilot is required to report the incident depending on the criteria of what happened.

Yes the drone needs to be registered either way unless it is under 250 grams, in which case it does not need to be registered for hobbyist flying.

Yes I know we can technically fly either way and my points exactly except for the fact in the case that if it is concluded that you are Part 107 and flying your "work" drone you might have a little harder time. I'm not discounting anything you are saying, just posing hypothetical situations.

 

[PhantomFandom]

Yes I know we can technically fly either way and my points exactly except for the fact in the case that if it is concluded that you are Part 107 and flying your "work" drone you might have a little harder time. I'm not discounting anything you are saying, just posing hypothetical situations.

OK but the thing is that there is no "work drone" or "recreational drone". Your drone with a Part 107 serial number on it can still be used for recreational flights. The only thing that matters is the intent of the flight. I am not seeing what the issue is in this hypothetical situation.

 

[chascoadmin]

OK but the thing is that there is no "work drone" or "recreational drone". Your drone with a Part 107 serial number on it can still be used for recreational flights. The only thing that matters is the intent of the flight. I am not seeing what the issue is in this hypothetical situation.

Agreed except my work drone is covered by company insurance. Unfortunately I fly under a corporation.

 

[Heckmaniac]

So this is also a hot topic on the Autelpilots.com forum that im on as well. Several responded that they called their local FSDO and I quote "Just got off the horn with my FSDO in SLC. They said the same thing. Non-certificated UAS operators do fall under 107 and are prohibited from night flight. Certificated 107 operators need a waiver. The process is on the FAA UAS Web Portal You'll need to fill out online forms and send physical copies to D.C. And, this is something I was unaware of, but Part 101 was rescinded." According to them a hobbiest flying in class G airspace still needs a waiver to fly at night. I plan on calling my FSDO this week to clarify and hear for myself as I have been regularly flying at night using strobe anti-collision lighting thinking I was legal - evidently I'm not.

 

[I B Spectre]

Please keep us posted on what you hear from your FSDO. We'd like to think all FAA outlets would provide uniform responses with cited references, but too often you can contact a half dozen different government offices and you'll get six different answers. The FAA could do everyone, including themselves, a big service by providing better, easier to understand directives instead of fragmented information sprinkled throughout documents. They made it reasonably clear that Part 107 required night flight waiver, but did not state whether it also applied to hobbyists.

 

[Heckmaniac]

Please keep us posted on what you hear from your FSDO. We'd like to think all FAA outlets would provide uniform responses with cited references, but too often you can contact a half dozen different government offices and you'll get six different answers. The FAA could do everyone, including themselves, a big service by providing better, easier to understand directives instead of fragmented information sprinkled throughout documents. They made it reasonably clear that Part 107 required night flight waiver, but did not state whether it also applied to hobbyists.

Ok I did call my local FSDO out of Philadelphia, PA and he would not give me a yes or no answer, but referred me to follow local based community rules if flying as hobbiest in class G airspace (like AMA). Per those rules you can fly at night using proper anti- collision lighting in class G airspace. I then posted my findings back to the Autelpilots forum and after several back and forth responses (7 or 8) we concluded that hobbyists can still follow 101 hobbiest rules for night flights without having to get a waiver from the FAA. I say this as our best effort to get a clear answer, but in that effort there were at least 2 of the 5 FSDO's we contacted who thought you could not - so clear as mud - determine for yourselves I suppose.

 

[I B Spectre]

Ok I did call my local FSDO out of Philadelphia, PA and he would not give me a yes or no answer, but referred me to follow local based community rules if flying as hobbiest in class G airspace (like AMA)... I say this as our best effort to get a clear answer, but in that effort there were at least 2 of the 5 FSDO's we contacted who thought you could not - so clear as mud - determine for yourselves I suppose.

I wish I could say I was surprised. Thanks for posting your experience, Heckmaniac. It doesn't exactly instill confidence when the FAA says "Follow local based community rules". I'm thinking, "Aren't you guys supposed to be the authority?". What a way to run a railroad!