Thank you.
I was in bright sunlight so it’s likely I just didn’t see it...I’ll check it out next time I’m over there.
Small airport denies permission to fly.
- Thread starter Justalilguy
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I was in bright sunlight so it’s likely I just didn’t see it...I’ll check it out next time I’m over there.
Just to clarify, if the sUAS operator is flying under "current" Hobby/Recreational regs:
1) they have to notify if within 5 miles of an airport (except class BRAVO airspace which requires permission)
2) The Agency Having Jurisdiction (ATC if not then manager/operator) can object to the flight (remember you're just trying to notify and not ask permission) but whether you fly or not is entirely up to you. Legally you only notify but if they think your flight causes any type of safety issue they CAN tell you to not fly. Per FAA procedures they were instructed to ONLY deny if it is a genuine threat to the NAS but we all know this is done more out of SPITE than anything else. From that point we don't know what happens but it could go badly for the sUAS operator because endangering any portion of our NAS is going to put him/her on the wrong side of the law.
If there is an incident you have officially screwed the pooch because the AHJ told you to not fly. Even without an incident if the AHJ contacts local authorities you could be cited for reckless behavior and other "local" ordinances. Is it really worth it? You and only you can make that decision.
To say that an airport can not DENY our hobby/recreational flights is not accurate and could get some of our fellow sUAS operators into hot legal water.
**Edit ~ I edited my post to be correct to use the word "object"
1) they have to notify if within 5 miles of an airport (except class BRAVO airspace which requires permission)
2) The Agency Having Jurisdiction (ATC if not then manager/operator) can object to the flight (remember you're just trying to notify and not ask permission) but whether you fly or not is entirely up to you. Legally you only notify but if they think your flight causes any type of safety issue they CAN tell you to not fly. Per FAA procedures they were instructed to ONLY deny if it is a genuine threat to the NAS but we all know this is done more out of SPITE than anything else. From that point we don't know what happens but it could go badly for the sUAS operator because endangering any portion of our NAS is going to put him/her on the wrong side of the law.
If there is an incident you have officially screwed the pooch because the AHJ told you to not fly. Even without an incident if the AHJ contacts local authorities you could be cited for reckless behavior and other "local" ordinances. Is it really worth it? You and only you can make that decision.
To say that an airport can not DENY our hobby/recreational flights is not accurate and could get some of our fellow sUAS operators into hot legal water.
**Edit ~ I edited my post to be correct to use the word "object"
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FLYBOYJ
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Ya know I have to back peddle from my earlier comment and at this time agree with Al on much of his statements. My thought process was all this was happening at an airport in G airspace which has always been a contentious situation.
Now with that said I was recently told by a former NTSB lawyer that with section 336 null and void, 101.41 is no longer "applicable or enforceable." When asked to show me in writing the reasoning behind this, all went silent.
Until "Section 349" is codified it best to error on the side of safety - as Big Al says!
Now with that said I was recently told by a former NTSB lawyer that with section 336 null and void, 101.41 is no longer "applicable or enforceable." When asked to show me in writing the reasoning behind this, all went silent.
Until "Section 349" is codified it best to error on the side of safety - as Big Al says!
Ya know I have to back peddle from my earlier comment and at this time agree with Al on much of his statements. My thought process was all this was happening at an airport in G airspace which has always been a contentious situation.
Now with that said I was recently told by a former NTSB lawyer that with section 336 null and void, 101.41 is no longer "applicable or enforceable." When asked to show me in writing the reasoning behind this, all went silent.
Until "Section 349" is codified it best to error on the side of safety - as Big Al says!
Thank you sir. I think you worded that very well indeed.
It should be interesting what is the final version of Sec 349 and I wouldn't be surprised to see Part 107 change/grow over the next few years as well.
Please help with protocol here. I have my Spark being delivered on Thursday, so I'm pretty green in this area. I live at 2101 Barracks Dr, Fort Worth, TX. I'm just outside of Alliance airport 5 mile radius on it's south side. I am just inside the Eastern side of the 5 mile radius of Hicks Airfield. Additionally, the B4UFly app shows that I am in the airspace radius of 2 hospitals to my E/SE & E/NE. I think I don't have to worry about Alliance Airport at all. I have attempted to contact someone on Hicks Airfield to ask questions, but have failed to reach anyone. Then I have the hospitals. What are ya'lls thoughts? Do I still need to contact Hicks Airfield and the hospitals even if I stay below 400 ft?
Also, If 336 is null and void, should I still register with the FAA, or do I wait until the new is finalized?
Also, If 336 is null and void, should I still register with the FAA, or do I wait until the new is finalized?
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FWIW, I contacted the FAA about my issue with airport denying me permission to fly. Here is their response.
Thank you for contacting the FAA's Unmanned Aircraft Systems (UAS) Support Center.
As you noted, under the current framework for recreational flyers you are obligated to inform the airport of your operation. The airport may object but cannot deny. At that point, it is up to your judgement as to fly in that location or to move to another.
SF
Thank you for contacting the FAA's Unmanned Aircraft Systems (UAS) Support Center.
As you noted, under the current framework for recreational flyers you are obligated to inform the airport of your operation. The airport may object but cannot deny. At that point, it is up to your judgement as to fly in that location or to move to another.
SF
a) You're obligated to try and notify Hicks Airfield, both heliports, and I'd go as far to say Alliance because it's very possible if you're close enough you could be flying within the 5 mile distance. It all depends on how far towards that airport you fly. If it's even remotely possible you could be within 5 miles you need to cover your bases and notify. If there is an incident or a complaint and you flew within 5 miles and you failed to notify you've violated the rules. Better safe than sorry for sure.
b) 336 is not null and void until the new regs are written, approved and then added to the official FARs. Until told otherwise you want to follow 336 (or better) at all times.
c) Even without 336 in effect sUAS registration is required for all sUAS that weigh more than 255 gram (stick of butter) regardless if Hobby or Commercial. sUAS registration is not part of 336/101. You just decide how the aircraft will be operated (hobby vs commercial) and then register accordingly. Go to FAADroneZone and pay your $5 (if you pay more you're NOT on the FAA website) and put your reg # on the aircraft. I also suggest adding your contact information as well just in case you lose your sUAS and someone finds it and wants to return it. While it 'can' be identified and returned merely by the FAA# this will require the person knowing to take it to Law Enforcement, them contacting the FAA liaison, getting them to trace the FAA# and then the Law Enforcement contacting you to return your aircraft. I'm speaking from first hand experience recently trying to reunite found sUAS with the owner who did NOT have his/her contact information on it. This was a $3K aircraft and it was found by an honest and upstanding citizen and they called me to get guidance. 7 days later the operator and his/her sUAS were back together
d) When you contact the local airports etc ask them if there is a more desired method of notification going forward because you plan to fly often in the area and you want to make it as easy as possible for them and yourself going forward. I have seen a few operators who have an agreement to email/text a specific #/email prior to each flight session. Keeping it simple while still fulfilling your legal obligation.
e) It's possible the medical facilities where the medivac operate have no dispatch/control over incoming flights and at that point ask who does dispatch the medivac and get in contact with them. That's how we did it a few years back and we now have a direct # to call for local MediVac helis operations and it's worked splendidly for years now. They've actually contacted us back on several occasions because the helo was dispatched to a location very near to us.
Good luck and SAFE FLIGHTS
@Justalilguy thank you for posting back with their reply. I'm pleased to see they answered almost verbatim to what I noted in one of my replies above. I did go back and "edit" one of my words to be more accurate going forward for anyone who might be reading this but I left a note about my edit for total transparency.
A friend who is 107 certified advised me he was assigned by his newspaper to fly a mission near the local regional airport (SBP) so he contacted the control tower. (He earlier found that his Mavic Air wouldn’t even launch there because of the “geofencing.”) The tower asked if he was recreational or Section 107...said he was good to go if rec but denied if 107...very confusing. Anyway, we surmised that they must link the aircraft registration number to DJI who then, lifts the “fence.” Does that sound copacetic?
Denied because to get Part 107 Approval they refer you to the online web portal (if a complex request) or to the new LAANC for approval if a simple one.
If you have the correct approvals and documentation you submit it to DJI and you get a custom unlock for the area. I've got one for all of NC for Emergency Services. Now that you mention it I think it expires in just a few weeks... ugggggg
mystic1
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So its my understanding that DJI out of the box is preprogrammed not to take off if your any where near an airport , so its imbedded into the drone software not the controller im only asking because I saw a hack on youtube to fly with just the remote not your phone and I tried it it flew for about 5 min( in my house) and then it landed and now it won't do that hack anymore can you confirm this
Koala Tails
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Yes, I believe the geofencing is in the spark’s onboard programming. You can fly inside because the satellite signals are blocked by the roof & walls. When using controller & phone, the phone is slave to the controller, the spark communicates only with the controller. So not using a phone or leaving the phone inside doesn’t change anything. There could be an unofficial app replacement for the Go4 without geofencing.
You would not want to be caught flying a drone near any airport, the Gatwick Airport incident is being reported on news programs worldwide.
mystic1
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Thanks I just wanted to fly it in my house I would never break any FAA rules its just that I live at a stones throw to my local airport
Waiting to open my Spark this weekend. I'm also just within a Class D airport space so I wanted to check the preferred method for notifying them. I've seen some YouTube videos where pilots have used apps to contact/get permission but I wasn't sure if that was only for 107 (I'm a hobbyist).....I think it was through Airmap or Kittyhawk send was connected through LAANC? Or is calling the airport directly the preferred method as a hobbyist?
Danarsky
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It depends on a couple of things (1) if you are Part 107-Certified Remote Pilot in Command or flying under Part 101 as a Recreational hobbyist and, (2) the classification of the airspace overlying and within 5 miles of the airport.
If you are flying a "model aircraft" for recreation, Part 101.41 (e) states: "When flown within 5 miles of an airport, the operator of the aircraft provides the airport operator and the airport air traffic control tower (when an air traffic facility is located at the airport) with prior notice of the operation." According to the AOPA, there is no redress as the FAA has determined that to fly over an airport operator's safety-based refusal, would endanger the National Airspace.
If you are Part 107-Certified Remote Pilot in Command AND the airspace from the surface to at least 400 ft above ground level is Class G uncontrolled airspace; you can fly your sUAS in accordance with Part 107 without coordination.
Fly safe! Get Good Footage!
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