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Just Another Irresponsible Drone Pilot

I've been out in the park several times this fall before the cold closed in. I took my (alpine white with no decals) Spark up to 500ft to height-test it. I found it got difficult to hear at about 200ft up, and was getting very tiny. At that point you had to maintain an iron gaze on it because if you lost it you were never going to get it back. I relied exclusively on the video feed to fly it at that point even though it was technically "within visual range". Once it got much beyond 300ft though it was pretty hopeless to see the spec.

My distance tests were at 100-200ft, and took me out about 800ft I'd estimate. Again it was extremely difficult to keep a visual lock on it, and there was NO chance of being able to determine orientation that far out, let alone whether it was moving toward or away from me. It was difficult to recognize anything but large movements left/right or up/down. I looked down at the remote and back up and was unable to re-acquire it. So going back to the video feed again I turned it around and slowly drove it back my way. I ended up hearing it before I could re-acquire a visual lock on it. "I know it's right about *there* but I can't find it... OH! there it is!")

So I think your range estimates are a bit pessimistic, especially considering my vision's not all that good. But clearly it's easy to fly it well outside one's visual range without having to go around terrain, buildings, treelines, etc. I do hope they don't impose any more overriding controls on the Spark though. It's bad enough not being able to take off and buzz around your own back yard if you live a few blocks from a hospital that has a disused helipad. I would not have bought my Spark if it had a 300ft range limit, and I sure as heck would be returning it right back to DJI for a refund if it got a mandatory firmware update to add such mandatory restrictions.

I may get flamed a bit for this but I'm well-known for stating my opinion regardless of whether or not its popular. In this city we have a lot of bicyclists, but not a lot of bike trails. The city we share our suburbs with DOES have a lot of bike trails. That means we have a lot of bicyclists running around town and they are either dodging traffic or riding on the sidewalks. Nobody wants to take their 7 and 10 yr old kids for a ride in traffic. So they're on the sidewalks a lot. is it legal? Actually no it's not. But talk to any cop and they'll tell you you're much safer on the sidewalk than a busy street. But the thing is, if you happen to run into a jogger or a stroller or something that belongs on the sidewalk, you will be absolutely, unarguably 100% at-fault because you don't belong there. That's why the law is there, not for fines but for safety and accountability. (the law also covers cars, particularly when crossing a sidewalk while traversing their driveway - cars are 100% always at fault when they meet a pedestrian, regardless of circumstances) So if a bike (or a car) collides with a pedestrian, there's absolutely no question of who is at fault.

I see the "line of sight" rule in a similar vein. You get out there past where you can see and all bets are closed. Everything that happens from that point forward is 100% your responsibility, regardless of circumstances or what the other party is doing. If you're getting video or even still footage then you have to be taking your eyes off the drone and looking at the screen, and it's not practical for a lot of us to have a dedicated spotter 100% of the time. But that's absolutely required if you're going to be doing any filming or picture-taking, if you intend to follow the constant-uninterrupted-eye-contact rule. So there's always going to be a significant portion of pilots that bend that rule. But don't do that until you have developed some skill, and stay sharp. Fly defensively. Treat your flying as responsibly as you do when you're driving a car. You can do damage (and even injure people) with a drone just the same as with a car. Drive them seriously.

The LOS rule comes from a not too distant past, when all RC planes and copters flew without any FPV. I recently bought a RC plane with no FPV and a flight simulator package that works off the actual controller. Within about 1 minute on the flight Sim I realised that: a) flying a Spark is insanely easy, b) that if the plane is more than about 100m away then you can't tell it's orientation, and C) that if it goes out of LOS then it's bye bye plane and hopefully it doesn't hit anything or anyone.
Having FPV built-in to the Spark puts it into a completely different category to non-FPV craft. In a recent review by CASA in Australia, they made a telling response that could open the way in the future. They said that FPV was still not safe enough because the drones still lacked the avoidance and identification systems required in full size aircraft. If DJI were to introduce those features in future, then it would be creating safer craft.
However, there will always be the thrill seekers who push beyond the boundaries be it on roads, water or in the air. And, I'm still wondering when we will hear about the first DUI (droning under the influence).
If you think a Spark would cause some damage when it hit something, consider some of the big kit built Hexacopters that are out there. I also have a Tarot 680 Pro with a Sony a5100 camera on it. If that collides with something it will cause a reasonable dent.[/QUOTE]
 
The LOS rule comes from a not too distant past, when all RC planes and copters flew without any FPV. I recently bought a RC plane with no FPV and a flight simulator package that works off the actual controller. Within about 1 minute on the flight Sim I realised that: a) flying a Spark is insanely easy, b) that if the plane is more than about 100m away then you can't tell it's orientation, and C) that if it goes out of LOS then it's bye bye plane and hopefully it doesn't hit anything or anyone.

Some of us have experience from the time prior to quads and FPV video feeds. I wanted to fly a helicopter as far back as age 20 or so, and I eventually had the money to spare to get a nitro size 30 heli. (raptor, with futaba remote) And I quickly learned that knowing your orientation was key to staying in the air. A few years prior to that a friend of mine got a piper cub model and we flew that in the parks, and even with that, orientation was important when inputting controls. Fortunately for that aircraft however, if it was flying straight and level you could take your hands off the sticks and hand the remote to someone else and they had plenty of time to "get settled in" before assuming control, the plane would just "coast" fairly well.

NOT the case with a helicopter of the day. Even with my large rotopod safety landing gear, it was still quite possible to have it go doing its own thing within a few seconds of losing control. With the big gear off and it not nearly so bottom-heavy, I liked to describe it like balancing a broom upside down on your finger. It required constant attention, and would come crashing down within a few seconds if you ignored it.

Unfortunately, my stereo eyesight isn't so good, and I was terribly disappointed to find that I couldn't fly it out more than 150-200ft from myself without starting to lose orientation, despite the colorful tail etc that everyone had on their heli for just that reason. Once you lose track of which way it's facing, you are in serious trouble because any control input you make (and you need to make them constantly) risks creating a severe pitch or roll that will send it to the turf in a matter of seconds if not corrected. (which you can't do unless you know the orientation)

My skills at repairing the helicopter got pretty good but my flight skills couldn't improve much past the limits imposed by my vision, so eventually it got shelved as any crash was $150 to repair at a minimum and it was just getting too expensive for me to fly.

I've really enjoyed quads recently, because of how stable they are and "safe to let go of the sticks", giving me time to figure out orientation or just plain stop it from continuing on an undesired course. My first year of flights were without FPV or any serious attitude/position control, as I was testing the waters with cheap quads like the Syma X10, so by the time I got my Spark I was already familiar with quad piloting. And I must admit that considering the ease of flying a syma compared to a raptor, I saw again that much more ease when I got my Spark, with its automatic attitude and position controls plus FPV. It's almost effortless now, and is a joy to fly. Everything and more that I had hoped my Raptor would be year ago.

I realize the Spark was designed to be a "selfie-drone" and a stable camera platform, but I really get the most enjoyment out of it in sport mode, racing around the local airspace. I don't really have any desire though to get into the smaller racing quads, that's just too stressful. The Spark is well-suited to my comfort-zone.

So for me it used to all be about much more than "line of sight" because I would never survive long enough to get out of sight...
 
I agree that they have to hold the drone pilot accountable. But as drones get more and more popular, coupled with more and more of these type of incidents, I wouldn't be surprised to see The FAA/FCC really clamp down. I think the big thing is having the capability of flying so far away. Spark is 1.2 miles but with a simple $8 reflector antenna booster it goes over 2 miles and the Mavic out of the box is over 4. And quite honestly I think we will see it and I don't mean like 20 years from now. The drone owners are still a small part of the population so I think it is easier to clamp down on them when they are fairly small as opposed to when 80% of the people own drones. But it will only take one serious incident to make changes.

Can't imagine what a rotor blade for a Black Hawk will cost, can they be repaired?

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If they can't be repaired, they can be replaced... the UAS Pilot apparently has not looked at the legal way to fly unfortunately for those of us that do...when I see an advertisement for drone sales, I always mention that the purchaser should read the FAA Rules to safe flight, and the possible fines and sentences if caught violating them...
 
I would also like to say mine about the incident with the Blackhawk of course I think that the responsibility is perhaps both ... now I do not know if the blackhawk had to fly over that area at low altitude, but surely the drone driver was wrong for sure. the height limit is 70 meters and 200 in distance in italy. then in the future because of some stupid will be even more tightened penalties
 
I would also like to say mine about the incident with the Blackhawk of course I think that the responsibility is perhaps both ... now I do not know if the blackhawk had to fly over that area at low altitude, but surely the drone driver was wrong for sure. the height limit is 70 meters and 200 in distance in italy. then in the future because of some stupid will be even more tightened penalties
I place the responsibility of the incident squarely on the shoulders of the drone pilot. The Blackhawk had the proper flight clearances.
 
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That's the thing, blackhawk pilots do need to train flying low because that's part of their job, but they had the airspace reserved. Nobody else had any business in there while they were practicing doing whatever crazy stuff military helicopter pilots might have to do. They weren't just flying low on a whim.
 
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Think about how soon a Spark would be 'Out of Visual Range' , it's so small, realistically unless you have super powers, at 140x140mm dimensionally it's out of visual range after you climb or move beyond approx 40m, which is pointless.

I'll be honest and say 99% of the time, mine is well out of visual range, otherwise I'd simply carry a camera with me and forget the Spark altogether.

To me, flying a Military Blackhawk Helicopter at less than 100m over a populated area for no strategic or protective reason, THAT is the truly moronic issue. I've flown a kite higher than that!

BUT I'm expecting the USA gung-ho patriotism to shine in the replies. Go 'murca! All that military technology and somehow Neanderthals living in caves with cold war era weapons are giving the US Military a run for their money. I call bull$hit on that 'war'.

Just like the fact they will never allow a cure for cancer as it's now a billion dollar industry, so is your war. Way too much of a bu$ine$$ now to stop it.
The helicopter was flying over open waters
 
Unless the droner had eagle eyes the drone was not in line of sight and in turn broke the rule
 
Unless the droner had eagle eyes the drone was not in line of sight and in turn broke the rule

It depends on how you want to define "line of sight". In the radio business, low frequencies can follow the curve of the earth and you can communicate over the horizon. But higher frequencies like UHF require "line of sight" between the antennas for good communication. I can be miles away from someone and if I have "line of sight" we should have no problem talking. I sure can't see them though!

I suppose you could just make your own interpretation for LOS that differs from historical use, but I think it would be a better idea to use a more appropriate description like "maintain visual contact". That doesn't just mean there's nothing in the way, it also means I can SEE it. ;)

If they're using the term "line of sight" where they mean "so you can see it", they need to change their terminology, not start changing the meaning of words they've already started using.
 
It depends on how you want to define "line of sight". In the radio business, low frequencies can follow the curve of the earth and you can communicate over the horizon. But higher frequencies like UHF require "line of sight" between the antennas for good communication. I can be miles away from someone and if I have "line of sight" we should have no problem talking. I sure can't see them though!

I suppose you could just make your own interpretation for LOS that differs from historical use, but I think it would be a better idea to use a more appropriate description like "maintain visual contact". That doesn't just mean there's nothing in the way, it also means I can SEE it. ;)

If they're using the term "line of sight" where they mean "so you can see it", they need to change their terminology, not start changing the meaning of words they've already started using.
You can't see radio frequencies so technically it's not a "sight". FAA does specify "visual line of sight". I'm a recreational flyer so frequencies doesn't come to mind when "line of sight" is concerned.
 
And the NTSB report has been published. The held the drone pilot totally responsible (they found him too). He was flying essentially blind, no situational awareness. He damaged a rotor $$$$$ and pieces of his drone were found in the helicopters oil cooler intake...
 
I agree that they have to hold the drone pilot accountable. But as drones get more and more popular, coupled with more and more of these type of incidents, I wouldn't be surprised to see The FAA/FCC really clamp down. I think the big thing is having the capability of flying so far away. Spark is 1.2 miles but with a simple $8 reflector antenna booster it goes over 2 miles and the Mavic out of the box is over 4. And quite honestly I think we will see it and I don't mean like 20 years from now. The drone owners are still a small part of the population so I think it is easier to clamp down on them when they are fairly small as opposed to when 80% of the people own drones. But it will only take one serious incident to make changes.

Can't imagine what a rotor blade for a Black Hawk will cost, can they be repaired?
Each rotor blade can cost $220-250k. These are carbon fiber and other special alloys.
 
That's the reason for the EU power limitations, and the stricter rules in Europe. As always a few make us all pay for their excesses. When I see some of these actions, I always ask "Why could anyone with a grain of sense think that this was a good idea?". The same guys who play Russian Roulette on a dare? Question: What were they thinking? Answer: They didn't think.
 
You can't see radio frequencies so technically it's not a "sight". FAA does specify "visual line of sight". I'm a recreational flyer so frequencies doesn't come to mind when "line of sight" is concerned.

I was of course referring to seeing the drone not the radio waves. I'm just saying when people discuss LOS for drones what they probably intend to mean is the person's visual LOS to their drone, not their controller's radio wave LOS to the drone. Your eyes will lose LOS long before your controller does.
 
It's so weird that the piece of the drone that got stuck had the serial number and was traceable.
 
I think it's safest to assume that it's a gazillion dollars.

I've actually been wondering if the best approach is to buy a higher end drone to do these kinds of multi mile trips while they're still legal, or to not buy one with the idea that they won't be substantially more useful than a Spark once all flights past 500m are outlawed unless you also have some kind of super advanced license.
Rotor blades for Black Hawk helos cost almost as much as toilet seats on US Navy ships! Lol!
 
It's so weird that the piece of the drone that got stuck had the serial number and was traceable.
Yeah I thought that was strange too. Probably got better chances of winning the lottery than that happening
 
I think it's just a matter of time before they really crack down on flying drones outside of visual contact range, or require some kind of advanced licensing. There are just too many morons doing high profile stupid things.

For sure. I do think there should be some kind of drone-piloting test, even as an owner.
 

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